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	<title>Comments on: God Bless Humanism</title>
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	<link>http://polypyloctomy.24kblogs.com/2007/10/08/god-bless-humanism/</link>
	<description>Splitting philosophical hairs</description>
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		<title>By: Stefan Monsaureus</title>
		<link>http://polypyloctomy.24kblogs.com/2007/10/08/god-bless-humanism/comment-page-1/#comment-5</link>
		<dc:creator>Stefan Monsaureus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:26:04 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thanks for the comment!

I&#039;m not suggesting that humanists reject atheism or deny who we are. And, as generally defined, atheism is a necessary, but not sufficient, prerequisite to humanism. My points are 1) that we should not lead with our atheism, and 2) that as a movement we might do good to be more open to those who do cling to some sort of deistic belief. From a practical perspective, comparing atheism and deism is a distinction without a difference - it has no bearing on anything other than our views on &quot;first cause.&quot; It seems that even a deist lives &quot;without supernaturalism&quot; and that there is nothing in, for example, Humanist Manifesto III that absolutely precludes a deistic understanding for the origin of the universe.

Since &quot;deism&quot; as a movement has a long history and assorted definitions, that might not be the best word for what I&#039;m trying to convey (at least one definition that I&#039;ve seen includes the existence of a &quot;soul&quot; or an &quot;afterlife&quot;). Maybe &quot;pandeism&quot; is a better word. Maybe something else. But, again, my point is only that if somebody claims to have a belief in a god-of-the-gaps who created the universe, but is otherwise a secular rationalist, humanists should embrace them rather than drive them toward liberal Christianity. My guess is that once in a community of people who are comfortable in their atheism, such unnecessary beliefs would eventually be dropped.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the comment!</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not suggesting that humanists reject atheism or deny who we are. And, as generally defined, atheism is a necessary, but not sufficient, prerequisite to humanism. My points are 1) that we should not lead with our atheism, and 2) that as a movement we might do good to be more open to those who do cling to some sort of deistic belief. From a practical perspective, comparing atheism and deism is a distinction without a difference &#8211; it has no bearing on anything other than our views on &#8220;first cause.&#8221; It seems that even a deist lives &#8220;without supernaturalism&#8221; and that there is nothing in, for example, Humanist Manifesto III that absolutely precludes a deistic understanding for the origin of the universe.</p>
<p>Since &#8220;deism&#8221; as a movement has a long history and assorted definitions, that might not be the best word for what I&#8217;m trying to convey (at least one definition that I&#8217;ve seen includes the existence of a &#8220;soul&#8221; or an &#8220;afterlife&#8221;). Maybe &#8220;pandeism&#8221; is a better word. Maybe something else. But, again, my point is only that if somebody claims to have a belief in a god-of-the-gaps who created the universe, but is otherwise a secular rationalist, humanists should embrace them rather than drive them toward liberal Christianity. My guess is that once in a community of people who are comfortable in their atheism, such unnecessary beliefs would eventually be dropped.</p>
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		<title>By: Mel Lipman</title>
		<link>http://polypyloctomy.24kblogs.com/2007/10/08/god-bless-humanism/comment-page-1/#comment-4</link>
		<dc:creator>Mel Lipman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Oct 2007 22:34:53 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>You present an initially convincing argument.  But on second thought I cannot in good conscience call myself something I am not.  Isn&#039;t it somewhat deceiving to claim I&#039;m a deist when I do not believe that any supernatural power was ever involved in the evolutation of our species or the universe?  And, the issue you raised about conceding to the creationists is not a minor one.  If atheism means without theism, than all humanists are atheists.  We should not deny who we are.  However, we should make it clear that not all atheists are Humanists since some atheists do not accept or acknowledge our responsibility to act ethically for the greater good of humanity.  We need an effective humanist identity campaign, but that should not exclude acknowledging that among many other things, humanists are atheists.

Mel Lipman</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You present an initially convincing argument.  But on second thought I cannot in good conscience call myself something I am not.  Isn&#8217;t it somewhat deceiving to claim I&#8217;m a deist when I do not believe that any supernatural power was ever involved in the evolutation of our species or the universe?  And, the issue you raised about conceding to the creationists is not a minor one.  If atheism means without theism, than all humanists are atheists.  We should not deny who we are.  However, we should make it clear that not all atheists are Humanists since some atheists do not accept or acknowledge our responsibility to act ethically for the greater good of humanity.  We need an effective humanist identity campaign, but that should not exclude acknowledging that among many other things, humanists are atheists.</p>
<p>Mel Lipman</p>
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